And the Flag Comes Down

The Confederate Battle Flag was lowered today at the South Carolina State House. The flag has been the center of much controversy for some time. South Carolina, in the wake of tragedy, is attempting to move forward toward an era of healing, where actions speak louder than the “Heritage not Hate” mantra. It is unfortunate that this era had to come in the wake of tragedy, but it did happen. Dylann Roof’s attempt at starting a race war failed, but it served to open the eyes of many Americans. In the video below, witness a multi-racial and bi-partisan crowd lowering the flag and ushering in a new era.

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18 thoughts on “And the Flag Comes Down

  1. Jimmy Dick

    I think all the work done by educators and historians everywhere helped pave the road for this event to take place. Men and women who used facts in their teaching have overcome the lies of the lost cause which created the mindset to demand change when this act of terror by Roof was committed. That rag is down and it is not going to come back.

    Educators are going to keep hammering home the facts about the Civil War and Reconstruction. The heritage crew may whine, but their lies have been exposed. The ones that are racists have been exposed as well. That bell you hear ringing is the death knell of the lost cause and all that goes with it. Good riddance to bad rubbish!

    1. BorderRuffian

      All you have accomplished is to make it a symbol of defiance to PC insanity. And have exposed yourselves as the apostles of hatred and intolerance. Nice work.

      1. Nightflyer

        Who is being hateful and intolerant to who? To millions of black people, it’s a symbol of racism, segregation, lynching, violence, and oppression. To millions of other Americans, it’s a symbol of a secession, defiance to law and order, intolerance of majority rule, and even treason.

        Nobody’s stopping you from hoisting it from 10,000 flagpoles on private property, or calling for the South to “rise again” and secede from the Union. Again. Go forth and do so. We have a Constitutional right to ridicule you for doing so, and we will.

          1. Nightflyer

            The practitioners of those acts did so under and in the name of your beloved Confederate flag…and please share with us, from the depths of your vast wisdom, what you REALLY think about blacks and Jews. Spare me the rubbish about “political correctness” and your other straw men…we know what’s really beneath the modern defenders of the “old Confederacy” and its similar ilk…the hatred of blacks on top (both the idea of the position and them first) and Jews beneath the blacks (both the idea of them not being discussed publicly and being seen as the evil underlords behind the blacks).

            I’ve held my nose and read a great deal of the forums of neo-Confederates, white nationalists, BUGsters, modern secessionists, and similar folks. They have a high hatred of blacks, and a higher hatred of Jews, and pretty openly discuss that they have to be “cunning” in phrasing their arguments, so that they can achieve their goal: the internet version of “graffiti tagging” their slogans and irritating their targets — into public displays of anger, so that they can believe they have won a great victory for the “white race” and brag about it to their pals. Oh, and recruiting for your own website. Very important.

            I know you’re not here to “just ask questions” and so forth. You have a penknife to grind and a bunch of pals to impress with your latest score…so I recommend you simply print your canned argument about how wonderful the Confederacy was, the great value in slavery to all concerned (black and white), the mental and physical evils of the black race, the ghastly nature of the Jewish people, the contact points for your site and cronies, remount your horse, and ride off in all directions to your next chosen target.

      2. It is not PC for an entity, be it public or private, to decide what symbols are appropriate for it to use. This won’t TURN the “Confederate Flag” into a symbol of defiance. It’s been that at least since 1948, but not to any mythical “PC insanity” but to federal efforts to end both de jure and de facto racial segregation and other forms of race discrimination. It’s always been a symbol of white supremacy. What it coming down from the South Carolina Capitol grounds is means is a statement that this is a government for ALL the people of the South Carolina, not just the ones lacking melanin. It ends governmental recognition of the true PC insanity, the Lost Cause myth.

        1. BorderRuffian

          It’s a feeding frenzy. The politicians are tripping over themselves in an effort to see who can be the most anti-Confederate-correctly. In Memphis they’re trying to dig up graves. In New Orleans they aim to tear down several monuments (Beauregard isn’t important to the history of New Orleans?). That city had four black mayors over a period of 32 years. Any monuments built to the Union Native Guards? Not one.

          1. So your argument is that generations of white Southerners built monuments to their racial superiority, but shame on the black mayors for not building monuments to promote their race? Funny, I though the job of the mayor was to represent all of a city.

          2. I won’t recover what Rob’s already covered quite well, but you do realize, don’t you, that the City of Memphis wants to move the bodies of Forrest and his wife back to their chosen resting place, Elmwood Cemetery. They were exhumed and moved to the park in 1905, nearly 30 years after Forrest died in 1877. So it’s OK if the Forrests are dug up and buried in a symbolic move as Reconstruction ended and Southern white males regained control, but it’s not ok to return them to their chosen resting place now?

          3. BorderRuffian

            RB-
            “So your argument is that generations of white Southerners built monuments to their racial superiority”

            What sort of nut-brained comment is this?
            I’ve seen monuments to military leaders/heroes, monuments to those who died in a war.,,
            …there’s nothing on them about race.

          4. Monuments built to pay homage to people who fought to maintain race based slavery. Monuments of the same era built to pay “tribute” to ‘loyal’ and ‘faithful’ slaves.

      3. Jimmy Dick

        I’m not the one who made up lies and spread them to prevent people from knowing that the Southern states seceded over slavery. Whine all you want. You brought it down on yourself and I have no sympathy for those that lied or continue to lie. Robert E. Lee was a traitor. That is the truth. Jefferson Davis was a traitor. So was every single man or woman who took up arms against the United States of America.

        That is not being politically correct. It is being historically correct. If you don’t like the truth, that’s just too bad.

        1. Nightflyer

          My only comment on Robert E. Lee’s treason is that he regretted it to the point that he refused to have Confederate flags at his funeral, in his tomb, or even march in step at parades when president of Washington and Lee University. He urged his men to return to the Union, for which he is remembered well. He applied for a pardon (and it never got processed, showing that bureaucracy had problems then, too).

          I have a pal at work who told me all this: he also says Lee is better remembered for that than for his generalship, which had a lot of holes — lousy supply and staff work, no ability to coordinate troops on offense, over-dependence on Stonewall Jackson.

          I know every Southerner who fought against the Union was indeed a traitor for doing so, but I find it hard to hate conscripts, particularly 60-year-old men and 15-year-old kids, and poor and illiterate men, who were manipulated by politicians, planters, cynics, and racists. They died in a bad cause, and their families mourn, too, as I wrote below.

  2. Nightflyer

    Two thoughts:

    1. Removing the flag from the State House is an important, but symbolic, gesture. Removing hate from the hearts and minds of men and women, and replacing it with positive and pro-active efforts to end racism and its evils in our society, is the more substantive and critical work. Lowering one flag does not address the recidivism, economic, poverty, or education issues in this country. Much work remains to be done.

    2. As in all wars, the Civil War was “a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight.” Thousands of young Confederate men, most of whom did not own slaves, fought in that war, sent to fight by a ruling class that manipulated them for their own political agenda. The young (and old) men who fought in the war endured horrible conditions — filthy camps, ghastly weather, terrible battles — and suffered dreadful wounds or died appalling deaths. They often came back to find ruined homes. Those who were wounded often had to endure amputation, because of the Minie balls. Those who died were often never identified.

    Every single one of those men who died — and they ranged in age from 14 to 60 — left behind grieving mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sweethearts, wives, and children, who were as anguished as any family in any war over the loss of a loved one. Every person killed in the Civil War was a life cut short, a future denied.

    And there is no question that the vast bulk of the Confederate army showed incredible valor in battle, which should inspire today’s Americans. It is no coincidence that we have named forts for Confederate generals, warships for Confederate naval heroes, and Army regiments still bear the lineage of Confederate regiments — the Stonewall Brigade, for example, assaulted Omaha Beach, as part of the 29th “Blue-Gray” Infantry Division, an outfit that also included the Union “Dandy Fifth” Maryland Regiment.

    So I have no problem with descendants and family members of these dead men mourning their ancestors who gave some or all, and respecting their valor. At the very least, doing so reminds us of the unbelievable and tragic waste of war and its utter futility.

  3. It’s a battle. It’s a crucial battle and a crucial battleground. It’s not the war. I’ll disagree with any who say it’s just symbolism. Symbolism can carry enormous emotional weight. I NEVER thought the day would come in my life when a supermajority (as was needed to bring the Confederate flag down) of BOTH houses of the South Carolina state legislature would vote to bring it down and that a governor would quickly sign it and indicate active support for it. Whether they are willing to risk retaliation by white voters and/or if they believe that there is sufficient support for the law that they need not fear white voters’ backlash, the law was passed and went into effect.

    However, as we’ve learned all too many times before, the forces of white supremacy have suffered setbacks before but continued to fight back so education, particularly of the young, is essential, and continuing in other ways to identify and expose attempts to rewrite history to support white supremacy remain an ongoing need.

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